Explore Holy Taco

How The Religious Right Sees Stem Cell Research

President Obama signed an executive order Monday repealing a Bush-era policy that limited federal tax dollars for embryonic stem cell research. And while this move was lauded by many in the scientific community as a means to helping cure a wide array of diseases, the religious right had a very different vision of the future. Here it is:
 
 
 
 
 

168 Responses to "How The Religious Right Sees Stem Cell Research"

  1. Anonymous says:

    Cholly What research are you referring to in regards to creationism/Intelligent design. Please list the scientific journals and peered reviewed papers that have been released. There is none – its all bogus – THERE IS NOT CONTROVERSY HERE – please move on. Oh and by the way the world is not flat, was not created in 6 days ( or 60, or 6000 years).

    Yahweh is the god of war – you are all worshiping the planet mars

    When you state you have done the research for both sides remember that in terms of evolution there are no sides – as of March 10,2009 there is only one working explanation for the diversity of life on this or any other planet. This does not mean that evolution is correct – but it is the only explanation born out of observation and testing and that has shown any accuracy at explaining past events and predicting future ones.

    I have go so tired of politely allowing the the religous to state whatever the want without being checked….

  2. Anonymous says:

    I agree. At the risk of sounding callous, why let them be “wasted?” I understand moral inhibitions; I’m a Christian, and I like to think the value of life is something I have a SLIGHT grasp on. But at the same time, God presents humanity with opportunities, to either embrace or ignore. This looks like an opportunity to use something that has been provided, and even though it’s unsettling, it is better to use the option than waste it.

  3. Pastor Matt says:

    I thank you for your respectful tone as well Jafafa, but I disagree 100% with your position that “Devoting your life to something blindly to something without questioning it is one of mankind’s most admirable traits.”
    I hold that the only reason to devote oneself to something is if that thing corresponds to reality. Believing Spider-Man will save me if I fall from a skyrise, does me no good. Thankfully, man does not have to make a “blind leap of faith,” but can make a judgment on the issue with confidence “beyond REASONABLE doubt.” (For more on this thesis, see Geisler and Turek’s “I Don’t Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist.” The text has some limitations and is not without issues, but it is a great popular level start into the lines of evidence first in concluding Theism (1 God), and only second, determining the truth of the Christian faith. It isn’t honorable to ignore a “plethora of evidence in refutation,” but given the time and devotion to studying the issues, I find the plethora of evidence stands as an obstacle to atheism.

  4. Jafafa Hots says:

    My parents hated me.

  5. Anonymous says:

    A blasotcyst is not a life – get real! It’s 50 frigging cells with no resemblance to human being. Besides who cares – all this crap about the sacredness of life. You don’t really want a thinking person to believe that letting someone die because you’ve saved a blastocyst is reasonable? That’s preverted!

    The rest of the world doesn’t give a shit about this christian dogma.

  6. Anonymous says:

    correction- “using stem cell research WITH embryos” sorry…………

  7. Pastor Matt says:

    You said, “But you’d be taking a life either way.” No, you wouldn’t. Do you honestly see no distinction between actually destroying a life versus a disease taking a life? As to the argument, “they’ll be destroyed anyway,” a consistent advocate of life opposes the creation of fertilized eggs for any other purpose than bringing them from pre-womb to post womb life.
    Obviously, other laws already create a system where we have discarded embryonic humans “so,” you say, “why not put them to use?”
    Because, if we benefit financially, medically, and in other ways from the killing of innocent human life, we’re even LESS inclined to protect it.

  8. Anonymous says:

    From where I stand this was a discussion on stem cells, so how we always manage to stumble into the old ‘religion vs science’ debate again I don’t know….. (sounds like little children argueing over whose toy is better than the others)

    First off neither of you are right because until it has been proven beyond all measure of doubt that either one of you is right then sorry, by all means you are entitled to your opinions, but don’t shove your ideas and beliefs down other peoples necks.

    Apologies to all those whose religion clashes with this subject but i’m afraid nobody cares what you think. (This is not intended to be offensive). As long as society is progressing (or thinks it is) then anything that may be considered to make humans stronger, more superior and more advanced will always win over religion.

    Why? Because we can f*kin well do what we like, regardless of the consequences, we have free will and will proceed to do what we think we are capable of. Whether that is climbing Mount Everest or using stem cell research on embryos.

    Anyone is free to tell me i’m wrong, not really bothered.

  9. Jafafa Hots says:

    I too respect Pastor Matt for devoting his life to something he believes in, even though I don’t happen to agree with it. Devoting your life to something blindly to something without questioning it is one of mankind’s most admirable traits.

    So even though I’m an atheist, I admire Pastor Matt… and the Pope, Mother Theresa, Ted Haggard.

    And even more respect to those who not only devote their lives but literally GIVE their lives to their cause. The brave 9/11 hijackers. The various suicide bombers. Sure, I totally disagree with their beliefs, but the stunning single-minded devotion to them – THAT is such a beautiful thing to see.

    After all, like I always say – the true measure of the value of a set of beliefs is NOT how well they are supported by evidence and objective reality, but rather the degree of strength to which you can cling to those beliefs DESPITE the plethora of evidence that refutes them.

  10. Anonymous says:

    Pastor Mike – you put the emphasis on the wrong words in your first sentence. We know the definition of human. That’s easy. Where we disagree is that human life is not sacred. These decisions on embryos are arbitrary. As the person above states we make the decisions based on the benefit to society, not on “sacredness.”

  11. n8 says:

    If there’s not a God, then nothing is and man can just kill all the sick and not have to worry about curing them. (Yet…that seems repulsive to you, as it should…Why does it?)
    To answer your question, killing the sick seems repulsive to me out of enlightened self interest. I don’t want the sick to be killed because the possibility exists that I might become sick, and then I would be killed. I support the quest for cures because I might one day need that cure, for myself or someone I care about. I don’t need a god to make me care about these things.

  12. Anonymous says:

    yeah? but I’m past that stage right now, but I wouldn’t have noticed if someone had aborted me right then.

    What difference does it make if we destroy some embryos? They don’t know the difference. They aren’t yet human beings.

  13. Anonymous says:

    Unless that life is a homosexual or anything else you religious types fight against in complete hypocrisy. Life is sacred; why is the life of an unborn-baby more important then someone who is already living on this planet? Seriously, we can’t continue to keep having children at our current rate – the world is already 3 times over-populated, we can do without….

  14. David says:

    If life is sacred, eliminate the death penalty and outlaw war. Simply because archeology uncovers places mentioned in the bible does not mean its stories are true. And try turning the other cheek, idiot.

  15. Cholly says:

    I don’t know how the whole thing works in detail. Maybe the embryos are doomed anyway, and no potential innocent life is lost. I’m obviously not thrilled by the prospect if adult stem cells will work just as well if not better, but I choose my battles and there are bigger battles out there in the scheme of things. This is just a symptom of a bigger problem.

    What gets me is when fools fire back at us “religioners” and “Christianists”, claiming we “think like little children who believe in Santa”, when 9 times out of 10 you mockers are more idiotic than the windows you lick. Ooh, so we stand for and believe in something you don’t like, or don’t understand! Ooh, we must be stupid! I actually do a lot of research into both sides of the big picture – evolution vs. creation, etc. etc. Y’all need to stick your nose in a book or educational website before you make any more remarks – I daresay you’ve got a serious inability to function in modern society when you can’t even express a semi-intelligent thought correctly.

  16. Del says:

    The bible is just a poorly written almanac of ancient folkloric self-help. Don’t confuse it with authority on anything. Life isn’t sacred. It’s just what we make of it. Don’t mess it up. it’s the only thing you/we have and there isn’t anything that comes after it or you’ve missed your chance … and then life really is pointless.

  17. Sanity Jane says:

    Yes? Go on…

  18. steve's Mom says:

    Yeah it’s true because I said it. I’m like a 20 year old genius over here with several degrees. Oh wait no I’m some dipshit kid who wrote a 300 word paper that took me two weeks and used sources that are biased in favor of stem cell research…..Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu….don’t forget to look in the suppository for it…..Dat shits true,they werks better.

    Maybe site some examples of why they are better you worm. Until then shut up and go back to playing your PS3.

  19. Anonymous says:

    Aha! Well there’s your problem. You don’t know what you’re talking about. Abortion produces a dead fetus. An embryo is a microscopic cluster of cells that occurs way before you even know you’re pregnant.

  20. Pastor Matt says:

    I do advocate that NO ONE participate in fertility treatments for this reason Anonymous. But this isn’t a thread ABOUT that, so for the sake of brevity, did not fill you in on my entire system of belief, but just a part.

  21. Sanity Jane says:

    And is every sperm sacred? Is menstruation murder? After all, that’s human DNA in there that could, under the right circumstances, have become a human being.

  22. Jafafa Hots says:

    There are also living human cells in the booger I just picked out of my nose… and it’s a big one, bigger than most embryos used.

  23. Anonymous says:

    I’d also advise you to keep your ridiculous rhetoric in the same place. Let’s not play favorites.

  24. Anonymous says:

    Embryos are not humans – They’re a small collection of cells that you can’t even see with the naked eye. Every time I blow my nose there are more human cells discarded on the ground than an embryo. Declaring human life is sacred at conception is absurd – maybe when the kid is viable at about six months, but protection for embryos? NOT. That’s for Luddites.

  25. Anonymous says:

    every time a Christian gets a fertility treatment to conceive, they produce approximately 26 eggs that are then fertilized, selected, and 5 or so are implanted…at most, 15 eggs are used because they typically only try up to 3 times…
    the left over eggs are frozen in tubes that are monitored and used for up to 10 years, after which they can no longer be implanted due to possibilities of birth defects. then they are thrown away.
    do some research. ignorance has put us far behind.
    or, start advocating that “Christians” no longer get fertility treatments…

  26. Maple Leaf says:

    If Americans would just pay attention to something other than their own navels once in a while, they’d notice that up here in Canada we’ve discovered a way of creating stem cells without embryos. It’s a nice gesture that Obama overturned that ban, but sort of a bit too late for it to mean anything concrete.

  27. Anonymous says:

    the cells you are talking about are created with adult samples. adult dna is degraded, explaining problems with cloning etc. embryonic stem cells are still needed for research. they produce the best results.

  28. Pete rock says:

    What the hell is it about doing anything political that causes idiots like you to try and stop it. It’s ok to make fun of fat people and midgets, but don’t be getting political now. Carry on HT. We live in a free country.

  29. steve's stem cell says:

    I wrote a paper about this for a class and spent way too long doing research, the people that oppose this really only oppose this on a moral ground, which is their right. What annoys me is the fact that many people throw out false facts like the stem cells from embryos don’t work as well. Go to a federal depository library and look up peer reviewed studies from scientists, that shit ain’t true, embryonic cells work a lot better.

  30. Del says:

    But it ain’t a human being. There’s nothing sacred about it.

  31. wubster says:

    Saying the Bible is usefully in archaeology is no more relevant than saying Anne Rice’s vampire books are useful for finding real places in New Orleans.

    Of _course_ the people who wrote the bible used some real places and some real events in their books, just like modern authors reference real places and events. It in no way means the books are anything more than fiction and/or hearsay stories.

  32. Agnostic Z. says:

    well said.

  33. Anonymous says:

    It’s not like women go out and have abortions because they’re fun or they have nothing better to do on a Friday night. They do it because they are scared or uneducated or alone and they know that they can’t raise a child by themselves. If they are going to have an abortion anyway, shouldn’t SOME good come of it (i.e. the embryonic stem cells)?

    The solution isn’t banning ESCR, it’s teaching women how to protect themselves from needing an abortion in the first place (and regardless what anyone thinks, it should come down to the woman protecting herself — it’s not the man that will have anything to “take care of” later). Regardless of your religious orientation, it has to be clear that people are having sex both outside of marriage and for reasons other than procreation. Little can be done to stop the sex, but much can be done to stop the pregnancies.

    So as long as abortions are legal (and I think they should be and should remain so), why not have some good come of it, and save some lives? As long as women don’t get compensated in ANY way for use of the embryo, it shouldn’t even be up for debate.

  34. Anonymous says:

    That’s not how you write “cite”, Mom.

  35. Pups McCann says:

    With all due respect, the embryos that are used in Embryonic stem cell research are derived from the left over fertilized eggs that result from In vitro fertilisation (IVF). This debate has nothing to due with abortion other than the fact that both abortion and embryonic stem cells are the destruction of human life. Whether one agrees or not science has proven that life begins at conception. Yet this confusion only highlights that many people are unaware of what embryonic stem cell research really is.

  36. Your a bunch of morons says:

    First of all, embryonic stem cells are much more useful than any other type of stem cell (otherwise why would this be an issue at all). Also, you all are totally gay. Theres only one place to “research” creationism and thats in a book writen by a bunch of sheapards a couple thousand years ago. How can you compare that to SCIENCE mufuka!

  37. Anonymous says:

    It is always funny when someone uses poor spelling or grammar to call someone else a moron.

  38. The Scallop says:

    Hmm… Not a big fan of eating babies but if he can solve the health care crisis…

  39. Murray C says:

    What about using stem cells from babies that were miscarried? Just think of a miscarriage as “Gods Abortion”, and everything will be ethically ok.

  40. Anonymous says:

    you scare me. The book which you speak of is in fact false. The only truth that comes out of this book is the truth that you create. You my suicidal, end of the world, looking forward too friend want what is in the books to come true. You want the world to end because in your sick twisted head you belive that, thats when we will all be saved. Can you do something for me, kill yourself and let me be.

  41. Anonymous says:

    Well I am also retarded.

  42. Anonymous says:

    Well hello fellow retarded person.

  43. Jafafa Hots says:

    One piece of evidence.

    Just one piece of evidence for a god, please.
    No, not mythology written in a book by bronze age people, that’s not evidence of anything other than someone(s) having written a book.

    No, not “you feel God in your heart,” that’s not evidence.

    No, not some “God is perfect, existence is a characteristic of perfection therefore he must exist,” that’s not evidence, that’s mental masturbation.

    No, not “I see his works in the world,” not evidence. Nothing you see in the world cannot be explained more simply by things there IS evidence for.

    No, not “irreducible complexity,” that’s been disproven countless times though your type ignore the flaws pointed out to you… and even if it WERE true it would not necessarily require a God as you imagine it, so it wold not be evidence of one, it would just be evidence of something as yet unexplained.

    No, not the freaking banana. Try again.

    ONE THING. ONE SHRED of evidence. The entire scientific world waits eagerly – if you can show one bit of ACTUAL evidence you’ll likely win a Nobel Prize.

  44. Anonymous says:

    A very good point!

  45. Pups McCann says:

    Very well said Pastor Matt.

  46. Anonymous says:

    First, don’t generalize for all if us “religious” people. I consider myself a pretty devout Christian, and I don’t believe that stem cell research is wrong, by any means. If God has placed the opportunity in front of us to solve some of our MANY problems, the solution should be embraced. That’s not to condone abortion or anything… that’s a totally different argument. But, in the event that there are ready stem cells that can be used for something productive, then the choice is rather simple.

    Second, claiming that others “don’t know what’s going on” while you CLEARLY assume that you do is both an unfair argument and an easy way to look like an ass. Try to keep the slander down, slick.

  47. Pastor Matt says:

    I’ve never known an embryo created by 2 humans to produce anything other than a human baby at birth have you? It sounds like SIZE is a part of your arbitrary definition of human. What is your required size to “count?” Then, is 1 cell less not a human? What is he at that point? Potentially a dog? cat? No. He’s always a human, just at the very beginning of the human journey.
    Look: science can’t answer the question “when does life start?” Because “life” as we’re using it, is metaphysical. So, I hope that at least, one would take a cautious agnostic approach. If determining when life begins is “above your paygrade,” then err on the side of caution for that embryo. Because YOU DON’T KNOW that he’s not alive. Sex, eye color, shoe size, all of these things are determined at conception, at that point, the zygote had all of the genetic material he needs. With proper protection, nourishment, and other resources, he’ll grow. Therefore, for those of you who can not rely upon Scripture (in none of my posts have I referenced it, rather have made appeals to general revelation and natural law) concede that the most reasonable course of action is to err in favor of the potential life. And what should happen to them? Well, so long as people are allowed to make the life, they should be given a chance to grow. Either in their parents or through embryonic adoption (Snow Flake Children is one such organization).
    As a former embryo, why not protect embryos? Why should you have not been protected in your first week after implantation?

  48. Pups McCann says:

    During a Bio-Ethics class I had while working on my Masters, I chose to do a term paper presenting both sides of stem cell research because frankly I wanted to know more about what all the hub pub was about. And it has been proven over and over again that adult stem cells have shown over and over again to be the hope of finding cures. Embryonic stem cells have not shown any positive results (zero) and have actually caused horrific tumors when used. So do the research yourself and you will be surprised. Good Luck.

  49. Anonymous says:

    If I understand things correctly. Abortion is legal in all 50 states. So there are thousands of discard embryos considered to be medical waste, correct? Would that be the source for embryonic stem cell research? Why not use the discarded embryos to give another person the chance to live.

  50. Anonymous says:

    I’m positive.

  51. Anonymous says:

    OK , as long as you are sure.

  52. Anonymous says:

    Why do you ask?

  53. Basel says:

    Pastor Matt, You got that right. Embryos aren’t human so they aren’t to be protected like a human. Besides we make the rules. Human life is to be protected because society collectively decided that it’s best for the sake of our society. We get to decide when some cells become human, not some declaration motivated by sacredness.

  54. Anonymous says:

    Fuck

  55. Anonymous says:

    There is no science in the bible, the age of modern science happened after the age of “invent fantasies to explain everything we don’t understand, which is a lot because we live in the mthrfckng BRONZE AGE.”

    Mankind is going to keep progressing and the superstitious can keep regressing if they like: Go join the Amish and give up all modern technology, including the results of stem-cell research. Please. Go sequester yourselves in Alaska and live your lives according to “laws” created thousands of years ago to control the ignorant and fearful population. Or, enjoy the fruits of the modern age: electricity, indoor plumbing, penicillin and Advilâ„¢ and keep your religious beliefs where they belong: in your own private homes and churches.

  56. Pastor Matt says:

    It’s the “Discarding” you mention that is the issue Anonymous. Humans are not toilet paper, bubblegum wrappers, or bubble wrap, humans are not things which ought to be discarded.
    The “natural” argument *is* (as you point out) a weak argument, as it’s natural for my teeth to decay, but medical advancements produce toothpaste which can help.
    The problem comes in disrespecting / trivializing / holding irreverence to human life.
    As for “should God be healing these people” tangent- substantial scholarship has been written on the topic over centuries of time. That is not a new issue and has been (many think) reasonably and sufficiently dealt with.

  57. Anonymous says:

    “I daresay you’ve got a serious inability to function in modern society”

    says the guy who’s getting all worked up in the comments section of Holytaco.com

  58. Anonymous says:

    Why is it ok to meddle with “GOD’S” work by mixing up a baby in a test tube, but not using the discarded ones to HEAL people (Who should be healed by this GOD person who never comes through).
    People seem to debate only the fact that we can’t use stem cells from embryos, when these things are unnatural in the first place.
    HYPOCRITES!!!!!!!!

  59. Anonymous says:

    All you religious people obviously don’t know whats going on. Stem cells cure people. Yes, they could possibly one day have grown into a human. But you’d be taking a life either way. And if you thought about it a little, would you want to be suffering with Parkinson’s disease? No. You’d want a cure. From stem cells. God wants life? Then why not keep the lives we have rather than bring new ones into this hell hole?

  60. Anonymous says:

    Uhhh? … Life doesn’t begin. Well actually it did maybe a couple time a couple billion years ago, but conception is just two live cells interacting in a normal biological process. They’re already alive and each is a human cell. There’s nothing special about conception so why do anti-stem cell people make such a big deal about it. Human life isn’t sacred. It’s just like all other life. We decide when the best trade-offs for society, not religious dogma. Stem cell research justifies destroying embryos.

    Oh … now I can hear the whining. But then you have no absolutes about life! What’s to prevent you from just deciding to kill everyone? Look at Hitler!

    Grow up! Society has pretty well figured that out over the centuries and knows what’s best and works. Look at the Scandanavians. Studies show their society is happier and healthier than ours: stem cell research and abortion are fine in their society. Now go look at Hitler. He didn’t survive did he? He was scourge on the world and the world wiped him out. Didn’t need the dogma of absolutes for that, huh? These things are pretty clear.

    And if someone had aborted me in the first week after conception would I have cared? I don’t think so. There weren’t any brain cells or consciousness to care.

  61. Anonymous says:

    You’re a racist jackass. Shut the hell up. Oh, and I’m in favor of stem cell research, just not in favor of you.

  62. Anonymous says:

    The key word i think everyone overlooks is Embryonic. We currently have stem cell research projects in place. Embryonic stem cell research is not proven and not necessary. We are currently using stem cells from umbilical cords, which is more accessible and less invasive and considerably more ethical. Maybe you should realize that you are killing babies that were otherwise intended to make it into the world. BTW umbilical cord blood has the highest concentration of stem cells.

  63. Anonymous says:

    IVF Embryos are ALIVE, yes, and they have the potential to divide into/become a human given time. But Alive doesn’t mean much at the small cluster of cells point in development. There’s no nervous system, no endocrine system…mostly no cellular differentiation at all (the definition of STEM cell).

    The reason they plant a number of embryos during IVF is because women spontaneously miscarry in the early stages All The Time. Is purgatory peopled with naturally aborted embryo souls?

    People who can’t allow themselves to distinguish between an undifferentiated (yeah, alive) cluster of cells and a person have no business voting.

    Choose reality.

  64. Anonymous says:

    The embryos uses for research are often donated by parents who have had invetro and have reached the desired number of kids. They would rather donate to benefit society instead of just destroying them. You are a fool if you believe these embryos were ever meant for life.

  65. Anonymous says:

    It’s hubbub, not hub pub.

  66. Anonymous says:

    Don’t invent religious explanations for norms in society like “don’t kill people.” Society figured that out ages ago without “natural rights” that come from a God. Of course we wouldn’t kill all the sick. That’s as repulsive to unbelievers as to you. But the repulsion doesn’t come from a natural law. It comes from tens of thousands of years of figuring out what works best for society.

  67. Pastor Matt says:

    All humor aside, the moral objection is that human life should be protected, and treated with dignity. The area of disagreement (I hope) is that stem-cell research advocates deny that the embryo is human. (Though maybe some are OK with slaughtering humans for scientific advancement? “Science over ideology”).
    If you’re going to poke fun at the religious rights position, at least make fun of the real position and not a straw man.

  68. Anonymous says:

    ahaha
    Attempt at superiority Fail
    tool.

  69. Anonymous says:

    Hello to you too.

  70. Anonymous says:

    Running

  71. Buddy Ice says:

    You either: A, fall into one of those categories and are offended, or B, have never been to, or had to deal with the general population of the Bronx.
    I, my friend, happen to fall into one of those categories and was born, grew up, and now work everyday, in said city. Therefore, my credentials are sound, and I can say what ever the fuck I want about the good ol’ Bronx.

    I can say things like, they should test nuclear bombs there, or they poison the water so all the ignorant, degenerate pigs that live there can’t procreate. However, I do want them to create babies, so we can suck out their little ghetto-ass stem cells.

    So, a racist I am not; a jackass maybe, but not by the content of my previous post.

  72. Anonymous says:

    The Bible is the most accurate historical tome in history? Why didn’t the Egyptians write about losing their Jews? And where’s the Tower of Babel? And we’re all in-bred? Fuck that shit. Basing your argument on a book that is almost unrecognizable compared to when it came together (do better research; most of the Jesus stories aren’t in the earliest editions) is foolish and you cheapen yourself as a human being by it.

    But all of that is beside the point. If you disagree with the way they try to save lives (which, according to you, are sacred), then refuse treatment next time you have a debilitating disease that can be healed through stem cell-based medicine.

  73. Anonymous says:

    whatever dude, there are too many people in this world as it is. Might as well make the lives of the living as good as possible through the advancement of practical scientific research. That saves lives btw, in case you forgot. It’s not like the embryo has the capacity to know or care wtf is happening.

    Also, you’re making it sound like women are getting knocked up to farm stem cells. And killing babies? Would you cuddle up next to a blastocyst? It’s no different than harvesting skin cells, only this is useful. Get a grip. The human race doesn’t have time for you to whine.

  74. Anonymous says:

    But.

    Not all stem cells are the same. Embryonic stem cells are much more powerful than umbilical stem cells.

    Embryonic cells have much more potential than other stem cells. You, sir, are wrong.

  75. James Goodson says:

    LOL, pretty funny dude!

    RT
    http://www.Privacy-Center.net

  76. Anonymous says:

    That’s because there’s very little funding for embryonic stem cell research. Molecular biology research is prohibitively costly. No $$$ = no results.

  77. thejackyl says:

    hahaha. f**kin’ pwned!

  78. Anonymous says:

    Hey Steve’s mom. The word you were looking for is “cite”. Religion is seperate than State. So should religious views be looked at. I think we should use stem cell research. There are millions of murders in this world already, but many more people dieing from diseases. I think that it would be a good thing.

  79. Anonymous says:

    thoughts

  80. Anonymous says:

    bye

  81. Kugelblitz says:

    I would sooner trust a cannibal than someone who told me he’s a christian.

  82. Anonymous says:

    ?

  83. Anonymous says:

    The earth is more than 6000 years old. I like to carry a fossil with me wherever I go. And when someone comes up to me and tells me the earth is 6000 years old, I take out my fossil, I point to it, and I say “FOSSIL!” Then if that doesn’t work, I throw it at their head.

  84. Anonymous says:

    you are a MORON. I guess that’s why we are not suffering half as much as you guys are right now. The loft above the ‘party’ -haha yeah you’ve got that right. I guess you guys have just partied a little too hard…sucks doesn’t it?

  85. Pups McCann says:

    Wow never thought I’d see a embryonic stem cell flame war on ‘Holy Taco’. Usually I come to Holy Taco to get away from all the so-called politics and just enjoy a good laugh. But words of advice for Holy Taco please don’t go political since either the libs or cons will tune out, thus losing 50% of the potential audience. We all need to be able to laugh about things equally both libs and cons together, especially during these difficult times.

  86. JudeB says:

    You can respect life without losing your mind over it.
    What it boils down to; if it bothers you that much, then don’t use the medical advancements to help yourself.
    I know that seems hard-assed, but it is the only way to not be a hypocrite.

  87. Pastor Matt says:

    Agnostic Z, thank you for your respectful tone. Of course no one “has to” agree, but, we’re all disagreeing over which side best comprehends reality. One of us (or potentially neither one of us) is right, and the others wrong, and I think that you would concede, that to be right about this issue is incredibly important, because the stakes are so high. I do not deny that scientific advancement may come from this, just as it may also have come from the Nazi experiments on unwilling Jewish test subjects. Yet, if there is something wrong with the latter, I think that should tip you off something is wrong with the former as well.
    Here’s where God comes into play: Certain rights we have as humans, come from God and are natural rights, distinct from civil rights- rights granted by the state.
    If there’s a God, then this is wrong.
    If there’s not a God, then nothing is and man can just kill all the sick and not have to worry about curing them. (Yet…that seems repulsive to you, as it should…Why does it?)

  88. A Human says:

    But a religion unlived is no religion at all. Isn’t that what is most upsetting about those who profess, but do not walk like they speak? Belief should never be confined, if it truly is something cherished and believed to be truthful.

    There’s plenty of science in the Bible. Are not all these things we discuss going to be understood differently 50 years from now? So then what remains unchanged through the course of time are the principles that were the same yesterday as they are today. We just come up with clever names and deeper understandings.

    When prophets hundreds of years earlier described metal dragons with fire in their bellies, we today call them tanks. And if you want to descredit that book of Revelation, perhaps you should also consult such works as Edward Case or Notre Damus who also saw more than what eyes perceive.

    Don’t put too much trust in human potential and intellect. We’re wrong more often than we’re right. It doesn’t take but a turn of the head to see we move from one disaster to another. And we’re all to blame just the same. There is something else happening, something elusive, something unseen, and something that can only be understood by pursuing it. Some have seen it and struggled to find the words to describe it.

    Hokey religion? I don’t think so. If you want one, there are many to choose from. But there’s no ignoring the evidence of something more than what can be packaged and sold.

    It’s easy to choose an extreme, place its reasponsiblity on a group you dont’ like, and say I’m against them. The things that make life fulfilling for any of us today are the same as those in the beginning of this race. The only thing different is the outer packaging.

  89. Anonymous says:

    Who are you talking to? You sound like a complete joke. Don’t give us Americans a bad rap just ’cause you’re so ignorant. Canada should not be refered to as America Jr. You are a dumbass.

  90. Anonymous says:

    My personal definition of life is very similar to the person you are responding to. Their point that more human tissue is discarded by blowing a nose than exists in an embryo is relevant. I consider it to be a human life at the point where there is a viable chance of survival outside the womb in a good preme center. That point would be 5-6 months into pregnancy. Conception does not equate with human life, just the possibility of future life.

  91. Anonymous says:

    “The rest of the world doesn’t give a shit about this christian dogma.”

    That’s your opinion; it’s not just Christians that support the right to life.

    Besides, those meaningless 50 frigging cells? Yeah, you were them once. We all were. A zygote compromises everything that initially defines us as living beings.

  92. My Mom says:

    This board is making me so frustrated! Excuse me while I go lube up my cross.

  93. Anonymous says:

    i support killing babies for science. as a matter of fact, i support killing babies just for laughs. come to thing of it, i’d support the killing of the majority of you just out of boredom.

  94. Anonymous2 says:

    Anonymous Says:
    March 10th, 2009 at 12:12 pm

    The Bible is the most accurate historical tome in history? Why didn’t the Egyptians write about losing their Jews? And where’s the Tower of Babel? And we’re all in-bred? Fuck that shit. Basing your argument on a book that is almost unrecognizable compared to when it came together (do better research; most of the Jesus stories aren’t in the earliest editions) is foolish and you cheapen yourself as a human being by it.

    - I do not wish to argue for the validity of the bible as a historical record or anything else. In fact I agree with you, but you are missing a few things.
    1 – There is a lot of true history in the bible, much of it is open to interpretation and is frequently mis-interpreted, but it doesnt change the fact that there is a lot of true history contained within it.
    2 – The Egyptians did write about losing their “Jews”. Only they weren’t known to the Egyptians as Jews. They were known as the hiacsus line of Pharaohs, a second line of Pharaohs which was exiled from Egypt, Jesus, being the the heir to that throne.
    3 – You obviously have no idea what the Torah is. The Torah, which is the first …ummm 5 books of the bible I think, in Hebrew, is the exact same word for word as is has been for the last 3000+ years which can be shown in part by the dead sea scrolls. I know they are the old testament, but they are still included in the new testament; Genesis, revelations etc. My point being the book is FAR from being “unrecognizable” from its original version.

    BTW if I were to be classified religiously id be considered Agnostic or Athiest, and am actually FAR from religious

  95. Hitler says:

    lol, me2

  96. Sandra says:

    Nobody ever, ever, is “killing babies” that were “otherwise intended to make it.” This has never, ever happened. Period.

    Otherwise, please feel free to post a link to the “Mother Sacrifices Her First Born For Stem Cell Research” story that doesn’t exist.

  97. Buddy Ice says:

    I was interning at the White House in 2004 at it was my job to formulate concrete facts on the subject of Embryonic Stem Cells.

    Here are my findings:
    If we used babies born in the Bronx, NY whose parents were:
    A) Crack heads
    B) Under the age of 16
    C) Jamaican
    D) Dominican
    E) Living in their own grandparent’s basement while driving a Cadillac Escalade with 22″ rims
    F) Ecuadorian

    Then we would see sharp declines in the following: welfare, drug use, gang violence, domestic violence, regular violence,lack of common decency, and illegal guns.

    We concluded that if we used babies whose parents fit only one of these categories, then it would yield a 63.4% decrease across the board. If the babies we choose had parents from each of the categories, then we would see almost a total absence of all criminal activity on a nationwide level. It would only take one generation before we can begin to see the effects of the research.

    However, the plan was never implemented because of two reasons. One, because it was 2004, an election year, and President Bush didn’t want to offend the minority voters, and, two, because Jesus told him it wasn’t right.

  98. Your a bunch of morons says:

    P.S. when I said you’re all gay I meant that in a good way. I myself take it in the cornhole. à tout à l’heure…

  99. Anonymous says:

    out

  100. Anonymous says:

    of

  101. Agnostic Z. says:

    Pastor Matt…I respect you for devoting your life to something you believe in i.e. christianity. But the fact of the matter is that this can help in so many ways. You say humans are not to be discarded. Maybe cows aren’t to be slaughtered and eaten by American fat-asses. Maybe trees aren’t supposed to be cut down for us to wipe with. Just because Christians do not believe in stem cell research, doesn’t mean everone else has to agree. The pledge does say “One nation under God”, but the words “under God” weren’t added till the 50′s. And that was only to scare the Russians. Stem Cell Research isn’t inhumane at all. It can really do the suffering world alot of good. Maybe your God intended us to use stem cells. And I didn’t mean “your God” in a sarcastic way.

  102. Kojakk says:

    We currently have stem cell research projects in place.
    - true.
    Embryonic stem cell research is not proven and not necessary.
    - research has been stunted due to federal restrictions also, who are you to say it isn’t necessary?
    We are currently using stem cells from umbilical cords, which is more accessible and less invasive and considerably more ethical.
    - true, though I would say that denying possible treatments from embryonic stem cells is also unethical.
    Maybe you should realize that you are killing babies that were otherwise intended to make it into the world.
    - false, do you really need this explained to you?
    BTW umbilical cord blood has the highest concentration of stem cells.
    - stem cells aren’t created equally. You may be able to do great things with cord stem cells, but embryonic stem cells will (likely) be able to do things that cord stem cells cannot.

  103. Anonymous says:

    Embryonic stem cells come from people who have used science to try and have children because they can’t conceive normally. Once they’ve had a child or two, the left over embryos are superfluous. The only way not to destroy them (one way or another) is for everyone to stop having sex to procreate and use these frozen embryos until we run out of them in a few hundred years.

    There are alternatives for the religionists who find the whole idea of stem cell research abhorrent: Don’t use the results. So when science finds a cure for cancer or diabetes or heart disease, they don’t have to take advantage of the cure for themselves or their families, they can do the biblically correct thing and hope for a miracle.

  104. archer says:

    This is great and you are a fine American! Keep up the good work!

  105. Cholly says:

    First: Based on your response – I rest my case.

    Second: There’s a boatload of archaeologic and paleontologic research being done independent of the Book, which BTW happens to be the most consistently accurate historical tome in history, as re-written and translated through the ages, at a couple thousand years old.

    BUT…you have to believe that the Book is true, and therefore so is it’s ultimate Author, to have any relevant bearing on these topics, which is why you don’t get the life-view that we have in regards to everything, including ESCR. Life is sacred, not chance happening w/ no ultimate value to be pi$$ed away for a scientific whim at POSSIBLY helping the ill and infirm.

    Have a nice day.

  106. Anonymous says:

    “stem cells without embryos” the US has been doing that, genius. but more things can be done WITH embryonic stem cell research. so shut the hell up about your self-righteous country, canadians. nobody gives a rats ass about you guys, “the loft above the party” aka America Jr.

  107. Anonymous says:

    I prefer the story of the Egyptian God Horace which is likely the source of the story of Jesus. Bot are good stories, however I feel the plagiarism should be pointed out. Take a moment to notice the amazing similarities even though Horace is quite a bit before Jesus.

  108. Anonymous says:

    “do better research; most of the Jesus stories aren’t in the earliest editions”

    Perhaps it is you who should do your research? Commonly accepted historical “tomes”, such as Herodotus’ or Thucydides’ histories, have less transmission accuracy than the Bible. If you want to attack the validity, go ahead; don’t attack the textual accuracy, since it’s far above and beyond anything surviving from antiquity.

    “Why didn’t the Egyptians write about losing their Jews?”

    ‘And in the reign of our glorious Pharaoh Such-and-Such, he lost an entire enslaved race after all firstborns were killed and the Nile turned to blood.’ That sounds good on an obelisk.

    “And where’s the Tower of Babel?”

    Destroyed.

    “And we’re all in-bred?”

    If you believe in evolution, then we all already are.

    “then refuse treatment next time you have a debilitating disease that can be healed through stem cell-based medicine.”

    Stem-cell based medicine is fine. Using embryos to fuel it is not. You’re not making the distinction.

  109. Anonymous says:

    are you retarded?

  110. Anonymous says:

    yes

  111. Anonymous says:

    Are you sure?

  112. Pups McCann says:

    Okay Pete how about a compromise; a liberal monkey and conservative monkey riding on bears on motorcycles on tight ropes to the death. Best political party wins!

  113. Anonymous says:

    There’s nothing wrong with killing defenseless humans as long as we benefit from it. Only the strongest survive.

    Heil Hitler

  114. Totally not impartial says:

    That was total ownage!!! Christians win forever and ever!!!

  115. Anonymous's conscience says:

    I’m a public schooled genius and I eat smegma ;)

  116. Anonymous says:

    You are such a loser…get back to your home-schooling, stop writing about things you can’t understand.

  117. Ben says:

    Bible never said respect for human life. God told Isrealites to kill many sinners. Gays and adulters were given capital punishment. Harming of the unborn was a minor offense in the bible. Bible does teach to love one another. That the Christian always failed to do. Just look at Katrina. BTW, we never respect human life when we fight the war in Iraq. Arabs are worth less to us than whites. Blacks are also worth less.
    Christians are extrapolating life down the moment of conception. That was never Jesus’s intent.

  118. Anonymous says:

    “Just look at Katrina.”

    What? If you want to blame the government, go ahead, but I’ve *personally* helped prepare food to send to such disaster zones. Christians are working to help the unfortunate every day. Just because they don’t parade their good deeds around doesn’t mean they aren’t doing them.

  119. thejackyl says:

    I’m Ron Burgundy?

  120. uh..you ...know says:

    I’m sure if rush found out that stem cells could cure ugly he woud get his ladies and gentlemen all for it …

  121. Kugelblitz says:

    I hope you’re right. Unfortunately the religious wing-nut segment of the population still has vast areas of stupidity to explore and they’re not constrained by anything resembling common sense. Religion, or the will to appear religious, is too deeply ingrained in too many people for it to go away any time soon.

  122. David D. says:

    I was catholic, but been an atheist for years. Mostly I’ve thought live-and-let-live. So long as the christian crazies stayed away from me, I didn’t pay them much attention. I’ve changed my mind and I see many others changing theirs also.

    When the evangelists start mucking around with things that degrade society in the name of their superstition, then it’s time to fight them publicly. Opposing stem cell research, anti-family planning, gay-bashing and screwing up science education by ramming creationism and intelligent design through school boards is too much.

    Time for all you silent atheists/agnostics to come out of the closet and do battle with these nuts. Polls yesterday show less religion in the US. Let catch up to our European brethren. Studies show their quality of life is better without old time religion.

  123. jimvj says:

    Not that right-wing liars like you will ever change,
    but for those who want to know the facts, please read
    this:

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sciencenow/dispatches/050413.html

  124. Anonymous says:

    You are wrong about the uselessness of embryonic stem cells in research. They are a major component of stem cell research in other developed nations around the world. One of the major concerns of scientists working with the 21 approved stem cell lines is that a more ethnically and genetically diverse sample is needed for research. What is needed is more embryonic stem cells containing genetic diseases for research. As most of the funding for such projects is typically government funding or government related we have had the problem of the government limiting our progress in an exciting field of research in the US.

  125. Jack Bauer says:

    Hey, how about we look at the facts before making assumptions that we know nothing about, ok? Embryonic Stem Cell research is not about religion vs. science. It’s about results. Guess how many lives have been affected by embryonic stem cell research. ten thousand? one hundred? five? no. 0. Every single time scientists have used embryonic stem cells, the result was always a tumor. Adult Stem Cells, on the other hand, have had innumerable breakthroughs. Bush wasn’t against stem cells in general. He wasn’t even against embryonic stem cell research. The only thing that he was against was federal funding of embryonic stem cell research that used new embryos, whereas experiments that used existing lines of embryos received funding. If the private sector wanted to fund embryonic stem cell experiments, it was completely legal. The “Bush Ban” phrase that the liberal media has been using does not apply to stem cells which we actually benefit from. Do you know who the first President was to prohibit stem cell funding? No, not Bush. Clinton. That’s right, Clinton. It’s called the Dickey Amendment. Look it up. So before you go and make this argument something that its not about, how about you research it a bit more.

  126. SR says:

    Very good comments! Too many Christians think like little children who believe in Santa. It is disgusting that people die due to religious beliefs not based on reality.

  127. My Mom says:

    If only your mother had aborted you and scientists used your carcass for ground breaking stem cell testing.

  128. Anonymous says:

    Haha take that Sean Penn! I fuckin hate that guy.

  129. eBay Secrets says:

    Jeff Spicoli was totally awesome dude.

  130. Penn was great as a stoned high schooler.

  131. emmellpee says:

    I always love it when religioners get offended by basic humor at their expense. You know, it’s generally okay to glibly inform people of other religions that they’re going to hell, but don’t dare mock Christianists for their ridiculous beliefs and inability to function in modern society.

  132. My Mom says:

    “mock Christianists for their ridiculous beliefs and inability to function in modern society”

    Awwww Did somebody get beat up by a bad ol’ Christian person?

  133. Anonymous says:

    “inability to function in modern society.”

    Yes, everyone knows going with the flow is absolutely the best solution, no matter what atrocities there are!

  134. tricoteuse says:

    “Christians are working to help the unfortunate every day.”

    You may not have meant it this way, and I apologize in advance if you didn’t, but whether YOU did or not, it’s certainly a popular and widely-held (and SORELY mistaken) belief that morality, kindness, and a desire to help others are somehow the exclusive province of the religious, in particular Christians. It should be obvious to anyone with a brain that this is not the case. Those of us who neither have nor want a religion are not without morality or compassion. Many of us give our time, energy, or money to help where we can. We don’t need a book or a god to tell us that’s what’s right. All we need is humanity.

    People are working to help the unfortunate every day.

  135. Kugelblitz says:

    This concern for embryos is a bit odd, given the general disregard for human life at any other stage of its existence. Doubly odd that the concern comes from Americans. Odder still is how much of the outrage comes from a collection of parables and fairy tales that are often at least as bloody and brutal as the most disturbed fiction ever written. How silly of Obama to be concerned with actual rather than potential people, for an embryo is nothing but a blob of cells that might become a person if a million things went right and which might be expelled from the body unnoticed if any of a million things went wrong.

    Eventually, infertility treatment will get precise enough to not require the creation of so many superfluous embryos. Until then some enlightened humanism might actually help the people already walking around; who knows, it might even lead to a universal treatment for infertility. I have to think that any such outcome is better than those cells being incinerated as medical waste.

  136. Del says:

    Absolutely. This christian concern is truly odd. So many places in the bible tell us to kill, and yet somehow christians fasten on to embryos as the one thing to spare. It’s primarily Americans who worry about these things. The rest of the developed world is more modern. We’ll get there too, just a little later.

  137. Science is the Devil says:

    I lick small penis

  138. Pups McCann says:

    Embryonic stem cells can be replicated by adult stem cells as reported in Feb. 2008. Adult stem cells have proven to be more effective in the hope of finding cures. Mocking people of faith is so funny hope all the Daily Kos people Digg this for you.

  139. Anonymous says:

    A baby gun-bot that shoots babies. awesome.

  140. Pratik says:

    The ethical side of the stem cell argument goes out the window when people die when they could have easily been cured through stem cells.

    That’s all I’m gonna say.

  141. Anonymous says:

    That’s really like saying it’s alright to kill a baby to save a car crash victim. Especially when these discoveries can most probably be made with adult stem cells rather than embryonic stem cells.

  142. Anonymous says:

    You’re right; currently we are not. However, if we can have abortion which ends the life of “cells” even further along, how much of a step is it to new lines of embryonic stem cells created specifically for that purpose? Meaning, not ones that are going to be thrown away anyway (which is ethically murky, in the first place), but ones that are created just for stem cell research.

  143. Anonymous says:

    That’s not an accurate analogy at all. You aren’t killing the baby for that reason the baby was going to die regardless.

  144. Carlos Mal Pacheco says:

    Dude, “‘s” is meant for possessive purposes, not for “plural’s”!

  145. Science is the Devil says:

    Don’t you know those embryo’s were going to be burned in a fire if not used! Now we are taking away their chance to raise from the fire like Phoenix’s and save earth with Jesus powers!

    I think thats what the looney toon jesus fuckers think

  146. Carlos Mal Pacheco says:

    I just wish they get to the cure for lung cancer very soon, because I’ve been smoking for six years and am too hedonistic to quit.

  147. Tyler says:

    Stem cells could be used to cure STD’s

    I don’t have any, but I love skanky women….so sooner or later.

    Its like playing russian roulette with my penis.
    I’ve tried to get with non-skanky women who will have unprotected sex with random strange men they just met, but they are hard to find.

  148. Anonymous says:

    Jesus sucks cocks in hell

  149. When you are dead you are dust says:

    I think the point is Jesus doesn’t suck as he died about 2000 years ago and that there is no heaven or hell.

  150. Anonymous says:

    From an ethical standpoint, I wish we were just trying to clone humans and using stem-cells to create all kinds of weirdness rather than blowing shit up in the Middle East.

    For all you right-wing spazmos who get your knickers in a twist over using stem cells because you are all crazy in love with “life”–why the hell are you so giddy over blowing up brown people?

    Cognitive fucking dissonance, dammit.

  151. Anonymous says:

    Wendys in future: Welcome to Wendy’s, I love you!

    Valued Customer: My colon is all janky, can you recommend a valuable meal?

    WIF: Drink Baby Apple Cup

    VC: I am no ape.

    WIF: Stem cellssssss *makes circular motion on stomach*

    *Baby Centrofuge noises*

    VC: Give me the chocolate fetus shake, I drink flurries. I’d like a codon spoon, too.

    WIF: Here’s your stemshake. I love you.

    VC: Wendy’s keeps me healthy and young.

    STEM CELLS: WE WILL DRINK THEM IN THE FUTURE. WE WILL BE HEALTHY. WE WILL NEVER DIE.

  152. Jellynail says:

    This comment has been made into a video on YouTube called “Wendy’s In Future.” Because it was truly worthy. Enjoy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ8LmKDqZKY

  153. who cares says:

    pastor Matt. Just what is repulsive about your closing statement? You are right, the sick are a drain on the resources of the well. Natural selection dictates life and death; a natural selection that was ‘created’ by God. Humanity is the abhorration of His creation by attempting to play God themselves by trying to prolong life unnaturally.
    It is Christian duty to ensure all prescription drugs are withdrawn, all hosptials and surgeries shut, and especially life support machines switched off permanently.
    If jesus were alive now, he wouldn’t be smashing up a temple, he would be smashing up a hospital to show how it has transgressed the word of his father.

  154. Abortionist says:

    Hey I am totally down to abort some babies just for the purpose of helping to make the Dead-Baby-Gun-Bot!! This could be new oppourtunities for employment of sluts, whores and rape victims alike!!!!!!

  155. Anonymous says:

    I’ve pre-ordered my Dead Baby Gun Bot with Corinthian leather interior, car phone, mini-fridge and RIBOSOMES.

  156. Judas Peckerwood says:

    Will the Dead-Baby Gun-Bot be available to the public? If so, when?

  157. Anon says:

    You idiots are missing the point. Bush never outlawed embryonic stem cell research. He just made it so it wasn’t funded by the government. Private company have still been using embryonic cells this whole time. But now Barry O has made it so they’re using our tax dollars.

  158. Anonymous says:

    preach on brother

  159. Anonymous says:

    Why is it that the world has to be told how to deal with life by Cults?

  160. Pierre says:

    Therefore let no man talk to me of other expedients: Of taxing our absentees at five shillings a pound: Of using neither clothes, nor household furniture, except what is of our own growth and manufacture: Of utterly rejecting the materials and instruments that promote foreign luxury: Of curing the expensiveness of pride, vanity, idleness, and gaming in our women: Of introducing a vein of parsimony, prudence and temperance: Of learning to love our country, wherein we differ even from Laplanders, and the inhabitants of Topinamboo: Of quitting our animosities and factions, nor acting any longer like the Jews, who were murdering one another at the very moment their city was taken: Of being a little cautious not to sell our country and consciences for nothing: Of teaching landlords to have at least one degree of mercy towards their tenants. Lastly, of putting a spirit of honesty, industry, and skill into our shop-keepers, who, if a resolution could now be taken to buy only our native goods, would immediately unite to cheat and exact upon us in the price, the measure, and the goodness, nor could ever yet be brought to make one fair proposal of just dealing, though often and earnestly invited to it.

    Therefore I repeat, let no man talk to me of these and the like expedients, ’till he hath at least some glympse of hope, that there will ever be some hearty and sincere attempt to put them into practice.

  161. Just-a-Guy-In-Ireland says:

    Nobody has summed up more succinctly the contradictions, damage and dangers which lie at the heart of organised religion better than Sam Harris in “Letter To A Christian Nation: A Challenge To Faith”, its only 90 pages or so. But goodness me its a compelling essay.

  162. Vance says:

    For everyone on the “left” of this issue, I recommend that you read “A Planet Named Shayol” by Cordwainer Smith. It casts a more thoughtful light on the concerns of the religious right on the use of embryonic tissue for medical research. I am not religious nor am I right wing; I just think there are deeper moral issues to this matter than the reflexive left is willing to admit.

  163. FestivousForTheRestOfUs says:

    Utimately I believe in survival, the constant creation and destruction of the world around us. We kill living things everyday, this issue just happens to be about one specific living thing. Imagine how many bugs you’ve stepped on in your life without knowing it. If any of you who truly believes that destroying life is wrong, I hope you’re all vegatarians. Otherwise I dont see how you justify your opinions. I myself am not because I dont think it’s wrong. How can you think that, if there is a god…., he’d choose favor of one creature over another?

  164. amorphous says:

    You can have my dead baby gun when you pry it from my cold dead… Oh, never mind.

  165. Anon says:

    mmmmmm, Skanky Russian women who play roulette

  166. Anonymous says:

    The Dead-Baby-Gun-Bot is definitely the coolest thing since Transformers. “Dead-Baby-Gun-Bot! More than meets the eye! Dead-Baby-Gun-Bot! Stem cells in disguise!!”